Confession: I find RV floor plans strangely fascinating.
Okay, “fascinating” may be a stretch. I mean, I don’t sit around all day dreaming about floor plans. But it’s quite remarkable how many different combinations manufacturers create. I’ve likened RV floor plans to Mexican food entrees — the chef always starts with the SAME BASIC INGREDIENTS (meat, beans, cheese, lettuce, etc.) and somehow they concoct 347 different menu items. In truth, we’re all getting some version of a TACO, but they each seem so gloriously unique.
The latest and greatest trend in AIRSTREAM floor plans is the FRONT BEDROOM layout. For you non-Airstreamers, this means that the bedroom is located at the fore of the trailer — it’s closest to the tow vehicle. The basic idea is that since you BACK into most campsites, the most desirable view of nature is in the back. The front bedroom, in theory, allows you to enjoy that natural view all day long from your living room. That’s the advantage.
What do I think about this floor plan? WHO CARES what I think? I’m married. What MATTERS is what my WIFE thinks. Hence, this video (which is pretty much a simple vlog like granny used to make — sorry, film critics, this ain’t Citizen Kane ;-)).
Look, I’m a MAN — toss me a shiny gadget and a cold beer, and I’ll be happy in ANY floor plan.
But my wife has definite opinions on the topic — as you’ll see in the video.
While I enjoy browsing different RV floor plans, Kristy has an intuitive sense of “what works,” and how livable the plan will be on a daily basis.
These different floor plans all have their strengths and weaknesses. There’s not really a clear cut “better.”
After all, sales of the front bedroom units have been booming. People LOVE their front bedroom Airstreams, so maybe we’ll hear some reasons WHY.
Ultimately, this is a personal preference issue, and there’s no right or wrong — what matters is what works for YOU.
So, what about you? If you have an OPINION on the contentious FRONT VS. REAR BEDROOM issue, please chime in…
Ahhh I have to agree with Kristy…. the rear bed is much better… and we tried ’em both. Best to go rent one first before buying it… however, 60,000 italians can’t be wrong… the bed up front is way too much traffic at night to get any rest… as they don’t make the walls of the AS sound proof at night…. way more privacy with the bed at the middle or rear.
Now Sean… not to be a pest but….. I think the shoot was good.. however, as Kristy was talking I had to use my imagination and rely on my experiences to mentally view what she was talking about…
How much better would it have been to have her go from camera to shots (stills or video) showing the viewer what she sees? She can still VO on the videos or stills to verbiage and show exactly what she wants to get across as her point of view. It then would take if from a dry monologue to more action. I am sure a lot of people were saying… I want to see what she is talking about… or show me!!! 😀
Also the second take of her talking should be blended with a still picture if you can not match the stop / start… so its not a jump’y connection…
Just some suggestions … otherwise you did a good job their indie’y and the info / debate on front or rear bed is still alive and kicking. (she made a good point of the entertainment and cooking… again would have liked to see the interior she spoke of) n’ something about don’t cook fish if you have the front bed… or you will be dreaming of bedding with charlie the tuna all night from the scent … 🙂 We found the AC didn’t make it to the rear of the trailer that well but froze you out in the front bedroom…
malbu huh… next time you come out go to Huntington Beach or just down the road the Bolsa Chica SB..RV park…. when the surf is up (6-8 ft waves) talk about sleeping and sound in the RV… its like your on the beach… and Kristy will go google’y watching all them surfer dudes while your watching gigget’s on the beach… Its so great but don’t bring a front bed trailer… you will miss the sights and sounds… unless you go outside in the cold moring :D.
Thanks GMAs for chiming in… I know you have had experience with both floor plans, so you bring a unique perspective to the table.
Yes, this one is more of a straightforward “vlog” and we won’t be submitting it to any film festivals, ha ha. We WILL, however, add some B-roll that illustrates Kristy’s talking points. It all just takes time. It’s the old “fast / good / cheap” scenario — I could take the time and energy to make this video AWESOME, but if I did then it might not be posted until sometime next month. 😉
Back to floor plans … I do think it’s a personal preference kind of issue, and it depends somewhat on how and where people like to camp. But it seems the majority of campgrounds are designed with rear bedroom RVs in mind anyway. I certainly don’t see how someone can go “wrong” by choosing a rear bedroom model, and Kristy articulates several reasons why the rear bedroom layouts are “right” from her perspective.
We will check out Huntington Beach and Bolsa Chica! I would like to find a nice place in Southern California where we can set up shop and hang out for a while. We had mixed feelings about the Malibu campground. There are some others in the LA area that are okay, but much less scenic. So maybe the places you mention will fit the bill…
Yep Yep… go to google earth or maps and bring up the Sat picture of it… you can see the two places clearly. I don’t think you will be having a bad time at either one. And once Kristy sees the guys.. ohhhhh… she won’t be having a hard time forgetting MH… who 😉 😉
Some of the other places we frequent when we want to get away from it all is down at Doheny State Beach in Dana Point… family fun place with exporing of the old missions. But, our favorite is good old Bolsa Chica state beach… has everything in hookups ‘n all… except holding tanks… which you have to wheel to the dump station just down the block.. provided. Its not cheap though… about 50 bux a night for the best spots. Of course the Gov is raising the rates and so I would check first for what the NEW cost of state park camping is going to cost.
now that you bring up the front rear bed… What about the front rear door that AS is putting in their trailers now…
We have gone to our converted Toy Hauler trailer and have a buyer for our old AS, which is old technology but served us well. For a long time we pondered over the placement of the bedroom/kitchen/ living area… and came to the conclusion that the bathroom works best up front.. yep no need to look at the cars going by… the bathroom (full stand up shower/3/4 tub and NORMAL pottie ) have more than twice the room the AS has. The Gen Set is placed next on the street side of the trailer…after the bathroom and in front of the street side kitchen area… which also is part of the living area so you have a dual usage space. Having square sides and straight walls also leads to more normal cabinet storage area.
So where is the bed.. well it is almost at the rear again. One thing we wanted built into the new trailer is the ability to have multi usage.. i.e utility and camping. So the engineers made a nice side wall fold out partition with a slider door in it. . Thus one can be in the living area and someone else can be sleeping in the bed. All except the kitchen and bath and cabinet areas can be removed and the space used for hauling. We elected to have dual doors on the rear instead of the fold down ramp. That way we can open them up for unobstructed usage. But, we wanted windows so in each door is a big’n window. these are not normal windows… they are made by dometic and have triple panes (high thermal efficiency) in them along with glass that is safety stuff like your car windshield… i.e you can’t break into the trailer by breaking them. But, we have a emergency release if you have to get out in a hurry. they offer a great view when the blinds are opened… but also privacy due to the film inside them. The walls and all are foam core bonded which gives about 3 times what the AS insulation factor is.
Now some can say its a box… but at night one can hardly tell the difference between a guest room and the camper.
As to heating and AC well we had two of the units built into it. (also have radiant heat in the floor.. ) man talk about nice in the night and morning… walking around bare footed… ohhhh… nice. No cold pockets.
Now the bed room can be changed around and used as a seating area with the two back doors folded back around the side of the trailer. OR… you can pull the awning out over the back and with the two doors opened 90 deg lock them so as to make a extend porch for the BBQ etc… Place a piece of indoor outdoor rug and you have a nice outdoor patio… got bugs.. no problem as you can attach the velcro bug screen across the back of the new found patio also. Some great utility huh.
We found that it is working out pretty great. And our 25 ft length of the new one gives us much more room and usage than the old Airstream.
Kristy will like this… electric convection oven microwave and electric cook top that had auto digital settings. You never knew that propane added flavor to them oven baked things until you use electric. No chance of explosion. No open flames and no burnt pans. Heck I can’t even burn the water anymore. coffee now stays liquid in the pot and just warm with the auto elect control.
Again no propane other than for the dual fuel genset… everything is all elect. So far we have not had to run the gen set too much as once at the camp ground you have shore power to run everything. At first I thought life without propane was going to be awkward but, its the wave of the future and really works pretty darn good. The boat people have had it for years on their cruisers/sailboats and its just now getting into the RV’s .
Some might find it hard to believe but with the sine inverter system also works as your going down the road with the tow vehicle provides the power for almost all of the appliances. ( the manufacture suggested that we change to the 280 amp alternator on the tow vehicle though)
The gen set is water cooled and makes good use of the heat generated as we have found no loss in hot water.. for long showers.. etc. as well as its as quiet as a mouse while running. Honda did something right on that one.
The two large 260 amp Trojan batteries are carried where the propane tanks used to be… and of course we also have 96 watts of solar cells up on the top side when the sun is out. Even their the engineers have done their homework. It seems that they are spaced off of the roof so that you can get cool air under them. Thus keeps the trailer cooler in the sun… while the solar cell covering is almost bullet proof and the snow/hail they say will never hurt ’em.
Lots of other new high tech features that AS has not yet come into.
While we have a entrance door up front like normal trailers … the two large doors in the back also give you a place to sit and watch the events go by behind you… and believe me surf watching was never as good as this … but, it also gives you a really large working area also with the bed turned back into the gaucho/seat similar to what the AS has. (don’t like it along the side… you can put it across the back.. don’t like it across the back you can put it across the middle… lots of places to move things around to your own liking.
Now again while some say.. that’s nice but isn’t it heavier than the AS .. same size… well one would think because it has a 3 rail frame that allows you to drive a car into the insides.. it has to be heavier. We took it over and had it weighed. Surprise its about 1800 lbs more than the AS was. But, before we go comparing one has to note that the wheels are the same 3/4 t ones that the PU has.. we asked for those to match. thus we only need to carry the PU spare tire. (if you travel with the AS much you will need a spare for it… and where are you going to keep it besides taking up room in the back of the PU or vehicle. We also elected to go with the disk breaks on the trailer (all 4 wheels) nice. The two AC units and gen set are also part of the weight increase. So in all we do weigh in more than the AS did but we have lots of extra features the AS didn’t.
The bottom line is the new toy is better insulated, has smart engineering which uses less energy (greener) more room, a little more weight but get this, we can load it up with almost 5000 lbs of stuff over its empty weight. …and… it came in costing about half of what a new AS would. With all standard hardware/electrical except for the LED high efficiency lights 😀 Holding tanks are bigger too. 80 gal fresh water, 30 Black and 40 gray… oh and it has a outside shower too. nice 😉
… and so …. if you don’t like the way its arranged you can change everything around except the cabinets, kitchen area and bathroom. Now that’s a… adaptable trailer. And if them uninvited guest show up… we have folding army cots that bunk bed and can sleep a whopping 8 people.. while we can have our enclosed bedroom private to ourselves… sweet… dog likes it too…
GMAs, did you see? I added the B-roll into the video. Ahhhhhh, much better.
We’ll add more footage of front bedroom floor plans later on down the line.
I think this is the type of video we’ll be doing more of in the future. I want to compile a catalog of content that helps prospective and existing RV owners with their buying & ownership experience. (Our recent propane video also falls in this category.)
Your current RV sounds nice. I know that Airstream has enjoyed success with its toy hauler — they are really popular with the dog show crowd! Yes, apparently the rear garage area works well for dog transport, grooming, etc.
Airstream is somewhat constrained by its own history. I mean, there’s LOTS of new technology they could incorporate into Airstream design, but they can’t change too much. For example, there are several lightweight materials other than aluminum that could be used for Airstream construction. Aluminum is expensive, too.
But if it isn’t made of ALUMINUM, is it still an Airstream? I suspect the market would say no. A non-aluminum Airstream would face a tough crowd.
Airstreams are kind of like Porsches. I have some familiarity with the P-car crowd, and I’ve heard the inevitable arguments.
CLAIM: “You can buy a faster JAPANESE sports car for half the price of a Porsche!”
RESPONSE: “True. But that car isn’t a Porsche…” 😉
Ok…so I’m watching and I get what the question and then Kristy comes on and, I’m sorry she’s your wife But My god man! I can’t or don’t hear what she’s saying. I an just goo goo eyed at her…sorry. I have watched from the beginning seen every episode my god man no wonder the honeymoon is lasting soooo long! I’m sorry Kristy and Sean but I don’t care whatever she wants she can have and then some!
Now back to the question at hand what the hell was I talking about? Oh right I you like it in the back or not. Let’s see We have kids so we have both. Ours is in the front we don’t hear anybody but the whole changing point is spot on. For me If we didn’t have kids I think I would like a back bedroom. The kitchen in the nose makes the trailer “feel” open. I also think you get better air circulation when cooking. Shrimp………are you kidding me! where’s mine. There I go…..getting off topic ah never mind. What I say HEY AIRSTREAM GET YOUR BUTTS IN GEAR AND GET SEAN AND KRISTY DEMO’S They ave a perfect demographic for your companyto exploit your product! Sorry Sean I don’t get it man, what are they waiting for.
Time for the polo shirt Sean I love my tattered tee that’s all gray and what not but I would love a polo shirt. Nice job on the EFX.
I am in the throws of putting on a Banks exhaust turbo back. Clue ya in…pay to have it installed the one bracket in the valve is a big pain. I have to take to a shop and have them do it. I’ll let ya know how it goes.
I also got the Filtration Solutions FS2500 and I will let you know how that goes as well. From out of the box it’s over the top! Looks like well worth the money. I’ll give ya a full report on it as well
Ohhhhh much much better…. on take two. That is the way I would have done it too… but, lets poll the gallery and see which one they liked better ? before or after… My bet is on take two.
hey when even the director/producer/editor is impressed by his work..and feels like its better… one sees lots of smiles and back att-a boy pat’n … 🙂 (of course the person in front of the camera gets flowers too.. for without her.. ahhh well… who are you again?? 😀
Ya done good. very impressed from what we viewed before you made the sugestions and improvements. I like it!!! getting very professional
You know you keep this up and soon we all will be the student and you the master.. kinda thing. You may want to consider going into teaching still/video photography as well as RV’n. have you checked into your ASC attainment yet?
I understand that they are soliciting for new videorgaphers trailers. And will give professional suggestions and ratings for them. You might want to enter one of your documentary travel adventures and see how it fairs. You are looking at their web site … arn’t you 😉 😉
By the way this is interesting
EX … USC’s Teaching Tool of Choice
USC School of Cinematic Arts alum George Lucas and the School’s faculty and students discuss why digital filmmaking is the future of the industry.
USC’s SCA has always prided itself on having the most advanced cameras to teach their students and the EX enables filmmakers’ creativity while producing “absolutely stunning images.” EX offers high quality, affordable HD that is efficient and cost-effective with a streamlined workflow, perfect for the School’s needs.
Mr. Lucas calls the quality of the EX camcorders “so beyond anything else” he’s ever worked with.
isn’t that your camera too?
Might want to read this article for more ideas.
http://www.theasc.com/education/reflectors/downloads/ASC_Using_Reflectors.pdf
Hey GMA where is your blog I would’nt mind seeing it.
Sean/Kristy,
I enjoy all your videos. You are creative and a good ambasador to Airstream. We have a 30 foot travel trailer (not Airstream but would like one) and have a front bedroom. I see no sleeping issues with it but then we also came from three cabover truck campers and all had over the cab front bedrooms. Maybe if I actually slept in a rear bedroom it would made a difference. I did look at, and would be its owner if I moved a little faster, a 28 foot Safari with slideout. Somebody else got it. It was an ’05 and I was absolutely amazed how fast used Airstreams sell. Keep the videos coming!
Well Mathew I would if I had time but, just a wee bit busy. The things we send back and forth on the internet most of the time are of commercial industry nature (professional trailers…no not the kind you pull behind the car :D) more so only in the business. ) Right now we are half way up I-5 headed north. X is driving and I get to play on the computer for now…
By the way my research gal found yours on twit’r Why do you have so much about Sean and Kristie on it when its supposd to be yours? (Hmmmm) From all indications it appears you are not into the profession of Videography like I /we are…or am I missing something?…
I was very conserned about your posting :
” Kristy comes on and, I’m sorry she’s your wife But My god man! I can’t or don’t hear what she’s saying. I an just goo goo eyed at her…..
Wow very puzzling indeed. you let your verbage come right to the point….
It reminded me of a TV series movie I helped shoot a short while ago about a guy who was posting pictures all over his room..(based on a true story) of some other guy and his wife… as a stocker… did you see it on the show… criminal minds?
So how is the 2003 ford excursion still run’n? did you get ‘er fixed yet?
Indeed Sean has come a long way with his presentations… and to this one he added the B roll too…. which turned out to be outstanding over the first take.
Did you see the earlier trailer or just this last one he added to? It was as different as day and night. Much more inviting and had better comp flow.
And .. yes I have been saying it all along also… that Airstream should have Sean under VIP promotional contract with all the work and great videos he has shot on it. I am sure a lot of people would go to the RV shows where airstream is … if they could meet Sean and Kristie personally… always nice to meet the people behind and in front of the camera that bring so much enjoyment. But as you proclaim AS just is not with the program… which is sad to not take advantage of the resource….
I have to agree with jmtandem about the sale of used airstreams. Our old 78 , 25 went within hours of placing it on the used market. (headed east for texas last time we saw it)
I can see why however. As the new ones we think are much less home’ly and more metalic inside than the older ones. Of course the price is also a factor with the new ones being much more expensive for the same unit. I also think, after seeing the new ones recently at the RV show, that the new ones don’t have the craftsmanship or wood working attention to details as the older ones had.
I think that AS is fish’n for new ideas to try and sell their trailers. They take the same basic shape that they always have and try to improve upon it so as to in-tice the new buyer …dazzling ’em with more gadgets. Most . as we observed however, at the RV show were impressed with the units but, kept the paramedics busy outside with oxygen…when they saw the price and almost fainted from sticker shock.
it was interesting to note, as I observed people coming and going, that the front bedroom units were visited about the same as the other rear/mid bedroom. The difference being… the comments made after most visited the two flavors and were sitting at the bench… most were amused at the front bedroom but, quickly came to the same conclusions that Kristie did… They also came to the same conclusion that it was more a novelty and would never buy one. Matter of fact as I overheard conversations of the young and old… that had visited the trailers… most of the young’ers I would say were impressed but would not buy that expensive a trailer… just couldn’t afford it new. A lot of lookie lou’s would first check the sticker.. then tour the trailer and leave. Sales people were all just standing around awaiting questions that never came except for the one ” have you sold many of these today?” …
The main target of the manufactur (AS) seemed to be towards the younger group but only the older group were signing up. So front or rear bed or door didn’t make a difference to the young families today… as they were not buying AS. Too big and too expensive was heard more than once.
What was selling were the tupper ware trailers … tufport out of canada, scamp and a new / old teardrop as well as the new /old shasta retro trailer. were all showing off the’re new low cost affordable intro camping trailers. (next step up from a tent 🙂 ) I would have to say when I was visiting them also.. I noticed the sales people were wearing out the pens filling sales contracts.
Young families… some with babes in their arms…or strollers … know value when they see it even today. I overheard a few of them say that its cheaper than flying to see grandma and like their parents they too want the adventure they experianced when they were kids… camping along the way and saving the motel/fast food bills. Made cents to me too…:)
Most of these units were small enough to be pulled behind a compaq car and had all the same features (except room) that the AS had. (hey when your young you fit into smaller spaces with little complaints I guess) Biggest selling feature was useage value,cost and size.
then again in those units it didn’t seem to make a difference where the bed was… as it was… the inside of.. the trailer…:D
( I was almost tempted to borrow one and take it home… park it in the driveway… tell X when she got home…that I traded in the big’n for it.. but then she would know she could see right through me… as I would be full of holes (its amazing that she can hit the target 8 times with a loaded six shooter) .. if’n… I did… and you know thats gota hurt….. it would probably be the dog and I in it for life) ya think she likes the new toy she had made to HER specs??? look out guys… when they say get out of MY ketchen… you best be taking note of whose RV it is.
its a hoot to go to these RV shows .. provided they don’t gig you for parking and enterance fees.. (some dealers give pass’s away so you can go free) Its worth it just go people watching… Sean you n Kristie and the readers should try it some time… Of course if Sean and Kristie were at the RV show… I would go just to see them too… (AS your missing the boat…by not picking up on these two adventur’es to hook ’em as we say)
Sean I sent you the article on reflectors. I don’t know if you use them or not but you might find it interesting and applicable in the future. Some homemade ideas as well.
Well on the road again right now… head back up north for the snow scene shoots… (big storm coming in accroding to the weather guessers…) then after that…on to superbowl sunday… yahoo… nothing like mixing work with fun… taking the trailer along with us as we plan on stopping along the way and enjoying smelling some of the “roses”
GMAs,
Your comments are well taken on quality. I think any Thor product is more about RV quality than Airstream of old ‘s ‘only improvements’. I also got a kick out of your description of your toyhauler. You can almost purchase new all the toyhauler you have and a new one ton diesel pickup to tow it for the price of one new 30 foot Airstream. For that, however, it makes the Airstream even more valuable to many as it is not the everyday Jayco or anybody elses trailer. So, being expensive is like owning BMW motorcycles, high end sailboats, etc. in that some own more for the statement made than the actual product.
I think toyhaulers are for many the ideal RV, many options, many opportunities to use them in a varied set of circumstances and the ability to bring motorcycles, quads, snowmobiles, jet skies, etc. with you. The baby boomers ( I am one) like to bring toys and the RV ibecomes more the base of operations than the object of the camping trip. I would love to see the inside of the Airstream hauler, but where I live (Reno area) there are not any dealers. Too bad.
I also agree with you that a few of N3’s comments are a little over the top. Too much winter, too much beer?
Gentlemen, first a little context. N3qdz is a longtime “old friend of the blog” who literally started watching our videos on YouTube back in 2007! He has probably seen every video we’ve ever posted from the beginning, and we have always appreciated his enthusiasm and support over the years. When I read his flattering comments aloud to Kristy (who was sitting nearby on the couch), she wasn’t even remotely offended. She laughed, smiled, and said that he “made her day.” So that’s that.
I think we all would get along great if we were all together in one room, discussing this stuff over a cold pint. But online, when we’re dealing with just TEXT, there’s always room for misinterpretation or doubt. At times, we ALL have probably unintentionally rubbed someone else the wrong way. I really don’t intend to provoke conflict on LongLongHoneymoon — let’s save the petty squabbling for RV.net (ha ha ;-)). I always give my friends here the benefit of the doubt.
JM, thanks for taking the time to post. Yes, used Airstreams do sell fast! Airstreams are produced new in pretty low numbers (compared to cars, etc.) so they are in short supply to begin with. And since the vintage units retain their appeal, they seem to hold up well on the resale market.
We will strive to keep some videos coming in the new year. We’ll likely be heading out to California this spring, so we should get some interesting footage in the Southwest. One of my goals this year is to shift our blog videos into more of an education / helpful direction. Then at the end of our “season” we can compile all the content on a DVD.
With regard to FRONT versus REAR bedroom floor plans, to paraphrase an old saying, “The best RV is the one you happen to own.” Another phrase that comes to mind is “the grass is always greener over the septic tank.” 😉
In other words, I’m not sure there’s a clear-cut “better” or “worse” for everyone – it’s all a question of what you like.
I think the noise and view issues are pretty much a wash. As far as the interior layout and design goes, those are questions of preference. Kristy is pretty firm in what she likes from a kitchen and living room standpoint. I think her point about the kitchen vis-à-vis the couch is valid, at least with regard to her enjoyment of cooking in our Airstream, With our current floorplan, I am able to occupy my space on the couch (editing video, etc.) while she works her magic in the kitchen.
Anyway, thanks to all for the comments!
My apologies to N3.
hey it’s all good JM.
Sean… No problem I am sure that N3’s intentions was more along the line of trying to be impressive and complementry … I too get things a little mixed up when tired or late night… or pollut’ed… so Mathew no pun intended.
I wish we could have time to have a blog and would love to show off some of the work we do.. but, that being said.. one has to remember its is n the can and the people who pay us… own it… thus, showing off would make some heads very upset in the industry. Besides this is Seans thing… and we are just a guest in his trailer adventurs also…
It would be nice here is one could post some pic . I understand about bandwidth and space however and thus the reasion why.
Instead Sean we are only trying to help with the video stuff. I wish N3 would let us all know if he is also into the click and whrr end of the info trail… N3 I am always interested in what others are presenting and hope no one ever thinks I degrade their presentation by making some suggestions. Heck if everyone made the same form.. what a boreing world it would be.
We are always look’n for the cheaper better way both in the industry and as a hobby in showing off how much fun one can have while also note’n how much work goes into it. Sean can probably asert…run’s up… a pretty hefty amount of time that he puts into his vids’ / blog. I am sure if we were to speculate on his presentations that one could say for every min of viewing it took over a hour to shoot and make it into the format that we all enjoy.
As to the weight of the toy… its not that much more…. foam and alu frame… as we stated before.. but indeed it does have a stout frame under it that in it…probably could haul a elephant and then some. We also like the idea of being able to haul the mail and other things that one could not get inside a 3-0 door. Again… we have seen AS that have come back from adventures where the floor seperated from normal useage and is –the weakest link. AS knows this and has several fixes for beef’n it up.. however, one has to remember the manufacture designed it as a lightweight trailer. On thing we noted JM is that the weight is one factor… the aerodynamics, however, is the bigger issue in pulling down the roadway. No matter what brand, its the sq footage of wind resistance that is the major factor in reguards to speed as we all well know.
AS went to a more squair coach some years back when they wide’n ’em. We have rented some of them and found that mileage really did get effected when they changed to the wide body and less cur’ved tops. Doing the math.. we found that anything above 60 mph really starts to drag the gas mileage down… (about half) weight not be factor on level ground as the mass is in motion and will tend to remain their until the hill is found.
Sq footage and useable space are again issues one has to note. Our new 25ft toy has 1600 cu ft of useage area… while the same 25ft curved roof/sides walls…AS we had… about 1200. Thus if we look at the 31 ft AS with its useable space of 1488 cu ft… one can see that the Toy is smaller but has more useable space inside than even a 31 ft AS… not bad 😀 Now if we go with the weights of each… the 31 ft AS is about equiv to the toy also. However, we have a 7.5kw genset, 280 amps of batteries, 80 gal of water, 60 gal of holding tanks… etc… and can use it to put a vehicle inside and still have payload weight left over. 🙂 could be why they are in demand. I won’t even go into the cost issue as you noted .. you can buy the WHOLE rig for the price of the AS only.
As to pulling it… nope stil we still use the good old 3/4t gas pu. We did get a chance to try out the new trailer brakes… ahhh seems someone (lets blame the dog) left the pin out and tried to move it… nada… the old toys wheels never budged… and all we did was slide the tires on the ground… which took about full power from the pu.. so we knew something was wrong right away. (shortly the’re after… the dog quit barking ‘n the dummy put the parking pin back in and life was good again… got to get a checklist made up for this one too… 🙂 )
Man them disk brakes on the toy are great… just for giggles we used the override on the brake controller and purposly wanted to see if they would overheat going down a steep long grade (with relief at the bottom.. just in case.. and we know the PU brakes will stop both as well.. yep tested that too 🙂 )
this came in the form of interstate 5 headed north…and a little piece of roadway call the grape vine. We really worked ’em just to see what they had for beef… Needless to say not only did the disk brakes on the toy hold on to the trailer but also held the PU back as well. When we got to the bottom of the grade… we went back to the normal mode… and found that not only did we NOT have to change the setting for combind braking but it had no jerk or sidepull. I wanted to see how warm they really got at the bottom so we stopped and checked… only warm… man them disks do a great job of dumping the heat. Big difference between old and new tech.
We had to pull over on the way up to where we are now… (snow is about 4 ft and coming down at a rate of almost 3 inches a hour… ouch… dog is teathered so we don’t lose him in the drifts… like we did before.. X got conserned about his privates freezing in the deep snow… ya like that is going to happen … 😀 ouch that hurt.. dog quit growling )
I took one of the cameras which had a calibrated sound level viewer on it… and went outside (where a nice big rig was idle’n along side… His truck front bumper was about at the rear bumper of mine while in the lane next to us about 20 ft away…. recorded the db level… then went inside the toy.. and noted the same sound. About 70-75 dbm outside and inside a whopping 45 dbm up in the living area (closest to the side of his cab) and at the rear bedroom we got 37dbm with the petition door closed . Not too bad.. wonder what the AS is.. as that would be a good test… to show if the front or rear bed was better or worse for noise… no problem sleeping for a few hours in the rear bedroom. (woke up to 6 inches of snow around and of course inside the Toy it was a nice 75 deg…(good first cold test) dog gets really!!! cranky and growls when you let it get to cold on the floor… so we left the floor heat on… and the gen set never came on as the inverter only ran off the battery for the RV. X fixed a real nice breakfast (eggs, bacon… dog and I love bacon, hotcakes, juice, coffee… man can’t get it that good in a fast food place or as cheap if one goes to the rest-ru-rip’d-off-raunt . Again a good advantage of RV’n (which brings up another thought SEAN… 😉 😉 about how much today can you save RV’n vs roadhouse. Where really is the break even point and advantages or disadvantages
We did however, have to use 4×4 to get down the way… right off we found other spin’n the wheels trying to make headway through it… but, flipped the lever…unlocked and wet to 2 wheel drive after getting back on the main roadway. Life is good… but, that brought up a interesting thought… no where does anyone have anything conserning towing in winter conditions…SEAN 😉 😉
JM… you might want to do a search of the RV shows coming up in Reno… I think they have a big one at the convention center next to the Atlantis downtown… but, your right about airstream not being at many of the smaller shows… which is probably why they are not as popular out west as back east.
Well out into the snow… back to work… got to get them shots before the actors start whinnnnn’n again… nothing worse than a actor whin’n … 😀
This is the hot seller at the show … (we got the info web from their single page flyer that was only xrox’d as they ran out of ’em) … some of the others asking… The younger famlies were lined up to order it… Simple, cheap and light… Now if AS would only make something that appealed like this did to the youth of todays RV’rs. They might have taken note at the show we attended as we said they were not selling… much.
I guess you could say this one also has the rear bed… but, then again not by much 😀
http://www.northern-lite.com/trailerspec.html
Thanks everyone for your comments. I’m happy to see everyone on the same page (or at least the same chapter ;-))
GMAs, with regard to your video criticisms, I don’t take offense.
So long as criticisms are valid and constructive, I try to take ‘em in the spirit intended.
(One of the reasons we require registration here on LongLongHoneymoon.com is to eliminate anonymous “you suck!” insults — ha ha … But insults are different from feedback…)
Now, with regard to how much work goes into producing one minute of video, you make a valid point… and this is WHY I often respond to criticism with the “fast / good / cheap” mantra. As you well know, making quality video is time consuming or expensive –and often both. Yes, the video is a lot better with B-roll – and adding it required a lot of extra work. 😉 But I do like it better!
I am pretty much in awe of the Hollywood entertainment complex, mainly because I appreciate how much effort goes into every show and film. I don’t think John Q. Public has any idea how complex the average American professional video production can be.
At the end of the day, we have a limited budget and time here on our blog, so we do the best possible quality given these limitations. Sure, it would be nice to pepper our videos with CGI, celebrity appearances, and maybe even a little 3D. But at the moment we’re a one-man band, so I’ll have to leave the 3D for Mr. Cameron. 🙂
The Internet is strange, in that “quality” does not always equal success. I mean, some of my personal favorite “Long Long Honeymoon” videos from a filmmaking standpoint have garnered some of the fewest views. Why? Who knows?
On the other hand, one of our more popular YouTube videos has been “the $2 Million RV” … Why? It probably has little to do with the quality of camera work, narration, etc. – but people want to see a $2 million RV! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQAWcWwWByQ
I think the Internet is really more about the quick hit, and “sloppy but effective” often trumps “polished and professional.” We may debate whether this is a healthy development, but who am I to say that a million YouTubers are wrong? 😉
Where were we? Oh yeah, floor plans… To again draw an analogy with Porsche, “the best floor plan … is the one you happen to own.” I hope that everyone is happy with the floor plan they have chosen.
One of the purposes of this piece is to get people thinking about the differences in floor plans, and what makes them work. I think Kristy’s observation about the interior floor plan vis-à-vis cooking will be helpful for some people.
If you are a first time RV buyer, it’s especially hard to envision the real world “livability” of a floor plan. Hopefully this page will help!
Sean,
You make a valid point about first time RV buyers. The first RV is to understand what you really want that will be in the second RV. It is just too hard to think through and try to understand all the RV stuff before owning one. Kristy makes a very valid point about cooking, I had not thought about it before. Maybe you hit the nail on the head as to why so many keep their first RV for a year or so before getting what they really want. I come from three cabover truck campers, the last weighed 4000 pounds and was 11 feet long. It required a dually one ton diesel pickup. And even then I had to add more suspension stuff. Everything in a truck camper is compact, sardine in a can compact. Now we have a 30 foot bunk house TT. I never imagined that the bed (front) and the bath (rear) is a long walk at night in the cold. In the truck camper it was three steps if you took small ones to go from the bed to bathroom. Just the things we never think about when purchasing an RV.
Good work you guys, keep it up.
Ahhhh yep.. most of the time the newbies are like airplane owners… when they first learn to fly.. they want a little two seater that doesn’t cost much to own or operate.. but, then they want one so they can take more people along with ’em.. so they go to a 4 place… doesn’t stop their…. they want to get their faster so now they want a twin… ops still to slow… got to have the jet… then they find out how much it cost and how little they use it because it gets their fast and they long for the little two seat airplane once again because it doesn’t cost as much and was more fun… to fly 🙂
I think the same applies in RV’s and trailers… too… after we see what the other guy has… we always want one better… kinda thing… 😀
the trial by useage applies to the RVs too… that is why I suggest to others that they go rent what they think they want… and then explore what they really need before they put down that sinking payment and get stuck with what they thought they wanted…
It never fails… starting small they end up big and long… and then sq-wak about the cost of towing it down the road… 🙂 .
Thanks JM, I’ve heard that old saying about “the first RV helping you understand what you really want in the second RV”… This makes a good argument for buying a used RV the first go around, so you don’t take the steep depreciation hit after a year, if you DO decide to change.
We may have gotten lucky with our Airstream in that we picked a good traditional floor plan that works well from a functional standpoint. It was our first RV, and I know there were a thousand ways we could’ve screwed up. The 25-foot length has been ideal for two people (IMHO); it’s reasonably spacious but also quite maneuverable.
I remember being slightly overwhelmed at the choices. If you have never owned an RV, that first purchase is intimidating.
Of course, at times we yearn for some more space. Kristy has long had her eyes on the 30-foot Airstreams (as discussed in the video) but to date we’ve been satisfied with what we’ve got. We’ll see! 😉
LOL GMAs, that reminds me… When we first went Airstream shopping, I had my eyes set on a 34-foot rig. I actually made an offer on it and was ready to pull the trigger, but the deal fell through at the last minute (someone else bought it!). Once the 34-footer was out of the equation, I found the 25-footer and felt it would work better for us anyway.
In hindsight, I’m glad we got what we got…. The 34-foot Airstreams are beautiful and loaded, but it would’ve been a lot for us to tackle on the first go around. Plus, I’m still not sure if it would work well for our style of travel (LOTS of miles covered all over the States). We’ve been able to get our 25-footer into spaces the bigger rig would not have fit.
But that’s the thing about different RVs… There are always trade offs. In the end you gotta decide what’s most important to you!
This is great information. My wife and I purchased a ’78 Safari not too long ago with the intention of redoing the interior if we got hooked on streamin’. Right now I’d have to agree with rear bedroom floorplan although that would entail moving everything around since right now it’s a front bedroom.
Hope to see more videos and posts about what goes into your airstream.
Take care,
Jude
Thanks Jude! Glad to hear that the video / discussion helped.
If you are starting with a blank slate (restoring a vintage unit) then you have the chance to truly get it right. You were wise to obtain some experience with the existing layout before jumping into the restoration.
One comment I would make about the current floor plans concerns the dinette. We don’t have a dinette in our 25-foot Airstream — instead we have a couch and a couple of nice, solid wooden fold up tables. This setup works well; if necessary you can put away the tables to increase space. I don’t think we really miss having a dinette, and we have a comfortable couch (that BTW also converts to a bed). If due to space constraints I had to choose between having a nice couch OR a dinette, I’ll take the couch every time.
In the 30-foot models you have enough space for both a couch and dinette. Even so, if I was starting with a vintage restoration I’d research many different floor plan options. You may or may not want a dinette.
Sean,
Any comments on the Airstream toyhauler? I would like to see one in person. 34 feet long, 11,500 gvwr, triple axle, MSRP of over $90K, seems pretty robust for a TT, pretty robust for a checkbook, too. Is AS stilll making that model. You mention that it is a choice for the dog folks, I wonder how many use it for other purposes. To my knowledge it is the only toyhauler on the market that the rear door opens ‘up’ and also has the ramp. Interesting concept and it might have to be that way due to the curvature of the top of the AS.
JM, we don’t have that many toys to haul (we’ve a couple of bikes that travel in the bed of our pickup), but we have toured the Airstream toy haulers in person. I know we shot video… I’ll see if I can dig it up. 😉
Yes, Airstream is still making the model. They have had great success selling them for specific purposes (ie. dog show enthusiasts).
In my dreams, I’d deck out the back as an office space.
With regard to the floor plan, you will have to decide whether the living space compromises warrant the upside of the garage. You will encounter the same kitchen/couch issue in the toy hauler as in the 27-foot front bedroom units. I mean, for a 34-foot rig, the living area of the toy hauler seems a little constrained. Maybe if your toys are crucial to your travel (Harley Davidsons, etc.) then the interior constraints are worth it.
Have you looked at the 34-foot Airstream Classics? Due to the lousy economy, Airstream is not currently producing that model. But there are always some on the pre-owned market. As you might expect, they are quite spacious on the inside. If you are willing to tow a triple axle unit, they warrant a look. If you tend to linger in one spot for a while when you camp (ala “snowbirds”), they are ideal.
Sean,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate them. There are two dealers near us, well not exactly near us. One is 500 miles away in Oregon and the second is 260 miles distant in central California that have the toy haulers. Both have them marked down to the high $60’s from the MSRP of the low $90’s. I will go look at one soon when it stops snowing. Off and on it has snowed since Dec. 7th. I am tired of it. I don’t need 11 feet for the Panamera but 10 would be better. As you might tell from my log in, we are into tandem bicycles and single bikes, too. It would be nice to have the bikes out of sight and out of the elements. We also have motorcycles but that would be a lesser reason to own one. I supsect the real reason for most to purchase the AS is to have the extra room (like you indicated) without the real desire to haul toys to the sand dunes, desert, etc. There are better toy haulers for the dune and desert crowd. They go up to 18,000 GVWR and can haul 4-5000 pounds, have 100-200 gallons of water, built in generators, etc. I think the Panamera’s living area is somewhat constrained with the couch facing the kitchen area, just across from the stove, the very thing your wife noted about the front/rear bed trade offs. But, if that is the only floor plan and it appears to be then so be it. I
did find a clean ’05 28 Safari slide out but acted a little too slow or it would be in my driveway for around $30K. I am still looking.
Jim
Sean…
Yes indeed the 25 is perfict… you need to do some checking as a lot of Fed parks as well as State one’s won’t allow anything bigger than 25… most of the logic is because they are old parks and were not designed for the larger units… after all you have to have how many feet for the vehicle AND the trailer.. and manuvering becomes a logistic exercise.
When we had our AS made… we spec’d out that we didn’t want the dinette either.. to much space waisted on to little time at that station… We opt’ed for the same as what the old AS has.. the same as yours.. side table and sofa couch… and never regreted it… as a matter of fact it gives you so much more room without out … but, when we got to AS to pick it up… even after X called and was assured that the trailer was built the way she wanted it… sure enough they had the dinette built into it… really miffed both X and dog off… and while they said they would take it back out and do it the way the contract floor plan was agreed to… we elected due to time constrants instead to take it.. (with a discount and the materials needed to put it back the way we wanted it orginally… needless to say the attt’s got into it and a year later AS pony’ed up and paid for the cabnet makers bill to make it the way the contract said… they should have done.
it was a good trailer… and I am sure the new owners down in texas are going to have fun with it… after it gets their… They had a transfer service come put it on a flatbed semi trailer… and wrapped it with that white plastic boat sealing stuff … to where it looked like a frozen AS on the trailer…
As to the rear door vs the fold down… we opted for the rear folding doors on our Toy H… again X had done her magic for the interior… and indeed Sean their is more than enough room for the office work that she designed into it… I have found it to be almost too large.. but I am sure we will get used to it… event’ly 😀
We have seen the AS toyH trailers… and it appears they took the 34 footer and sectioned off the front makeing it basically a 25-8 foot AS.. with a back area for some SMALL toys…
The problem and conserns I had with it was when X (who is a design engineer by trade) commented about all that weight being in the back and the effect of tail wagging. Sure enough we actually came up upon one and stay’ed back just on purpose to see how it was doing going down the road and if there really was a consern about the tail weight… yep… we noticed it almost right away when the road crown changed and some correction by the driver was done… Lots of what X calls moment going on back their even with the 6 wheels truning… 🙂
later we stopped and talked with the owners… and when I asked how he liked it.. he jumped right in and said “its for sale” … we don’t … with a attitude almost …. Wow… he went on to say nothing good about it either… heavy, gas mileage and lots of dealer repairs and down time. So might want to go talk to some who do own ’em… but one thing for sure.. he was miffed about not being able to go to some of their fav spots any more… too long a unit…
He asked what we had.. and I almost felt like saying a honda or something… man it would have been great to vid the guy and his wife giving a real time owners report… but… instead I pointed to the toy and he quickly said… see hun… we should have gotten one of them… Smileing I kicked at the dog.. and it growled… which then gave us a excuse to go put him in… bad dog bad dog… good puppy… we loaded up and split before the bad vibrations spread… 😀
Once back on the road… I looked at X and smiled…pat’ed her on the back… rubbed dog on the head… and we toodled down the road to the next adventure…
Oh one thing I did find when we sold ours… the 25 footers are the most in demand used AS of all their line. We had no problem getting the price and rid of ours… as we say… it was gone in 60 seconds after we put it on the market… So Sean you have a keeper.. and anytime you think you want to sell it… hold on to your hat.. aim high… it’ll do it…
GMA’s,
Thanks for the info on the Panamerica. I suspect the owner that you encountered did not do his homework as to state/national parks vs length. Triple axle, 34 feet long should have alerted him to at least check it out before purchase. I have found the parks in California and Oregon don’t care if you can get it in. The issue is making it fit into the site. Most park their truck (tow vehicle) unhitched to make room. We have had to hold back bushes (small trees) to get around the corner from the camp road to the camp site, have had to ask the neighbors if they could move their tow vehicle from in front of their site for a moment to make more room to manuever, had to drive the wrong way on the camp road, etc. Rangers and hosts encounter this stuff everyday. It was a no brainer each place we have gone. Never been denied if it will fit. We have a 30 foot Pacific Coachworks Tango TT, about 56 feet long on the highway with our one ton crew cab truck. I don’t like tight spots and I hate to ask others to help make some room, but as I indicated prior that is the stuff the AS toyhauler owner should have considered before popping for the expensive long long unit. In many cases the longer triple axles actually tow better then shorter trailers, back better, are more stable towing, etc. Of course they need to be loaded correctly.
As to the ‘moment arm’ thing, obviously weight behind the axles will lighten the tongue and too much of that (big huge motorcycles, etc.) will tend to require a stout truck and a high end sway control hitch.
My concerns are more how much dinged up the side walls will get since most haulers are built for wall scuffing and toys brushing against the sides, the top half of the door working just right and sealing tight, the smallish area for living vs the 11 foot area for hauling, very small tanks for a hauler, etc.
I am still looking for a 27, 28 or maybe even 30 foot used model that is 100 percent living space. But, the hauler caught my interest and I will go see one next time I get to a dealer. There is very little info on the hauler on the airstream fourms, perhaps because there are so few sold. I wonder if AS is testing the market to see if it catches on. Maybe they could put the heavier frame under all the longer models, that would be very nice.
My suggestion would be to make the garage 10 feet, close the rear, make a side door and ramp and not try to market it to the hauler folks, but as a garage model for space, small business, bicycles, maybe a golf cart, etc. Also, make it with heat, air, cabinets, folding bed for a spare bedroom, and then sell it to that niche. Not everybody wants a big huge hauler but they want more space than a 100% living space trailer. It might work.
Ahh I see this morning SEAN that AS is taking action with a new plan… hope your included . this is what we got…
Airstreamer Newsletter – Special Issue
Important Action Required
Great news! We’re pleased to announce that the Airstream newsletter is undergoing some significant changes. The new format will start in February 2010, with longer articles, lots of interviews with REAL ( what you have UNREAL owners 😀 ) Airstream owners and travelers, special discounts and offers from the factory, (… we’re starving back here!! 😉 ) contests, news from Airstream management (oh joy) , feedback from you (something they have needed all along… but now do they listen? 😉 😉 ) , and much more! (nice oxymoron that word MORE… without saying what more means… in reality its … what ever else we can find / throw in the pot …sells’ to you.. and you want to see.. I guess 🙂 )
This ‘double opt-in’ process ensures that THE AIRSTREAMER is sent only people who want to receive it. Thank you!!
Ok!!!!
Hmmmm…. interesting 😉 😉
Indeed JM the guy who we talked to had two of his HOG’s in the back. I would assume they were quite heavy. I never thought to ask if this was his first time.. he was not the happy’st one could sum…
Yes the longer trailers require more.. shall we say envolvemenal manuvering space and interaction. We know several that have the 31… which is really a 30 ft AS with a big bumper hanging out back…for looks. They too have said its the pits to have the trailer hitch hanging out in the roadway when they try to get into some of the tight spots…
As to the tripple axels… I would have to agree that towing they are probably more user frendly but the ones we see park with the makeup dressing rooms… really put some rubber down when they wheel them around to make corners. It seems either the very front or very rear wheels are always scrub’n the turf big time when they back into a spot. I have wondered how long the tires last and if they have sidewall breakdown due to the extream stress placed upon them when they are parking.
Well one thing you mentioned was a heavier frame work under the AS TH… I again would have to assume that they would have gone to that but, then again if you haul the load you need the steel.. and that is weight… no matter if its a AS or like our TH. Add the weight and you start going against what AS promotes as a lightweight trailer that is towable by…. something smaller than a semi truck. 😀
We opted for the 25 ft toyhauler… after we had some friends that lived back east take a alaskan adventure with their 31 ft AS. I wish I could post pictures here on the site… as it was very impress’ve as to how the trailer.. and not just theirs…but several of the others in the same caravan that had 28-31 ft AS came apart in almost the same places.
One picture I have show where Jacks daughter can stick her hand through between the hull and the floor at the rear of the trailer… it seperated by that much. (He said AS said the frame SAG’d… more like bent as we call it)
On their way back home… they went to the AS plant and had it repaired… their they WELDED more steel in… (he being a video person too took lot of pictures till the management kicked ’em out and wanted the film.. to which he gave them a dud roll and kept the shots) … it seems they knew what and how they needed to fix it back up so it looked right again. As he said… the comments he got about the problem seemed to be .. ya we have seen it before… so we concluded that from the wheel trucks back… the trailer are made very light. He listed other problems that happened not only to his but to several of the others (and backed it up with very good documented still shots) … it was a design problem from the factory.
I know we had our 25 ft AS opened up on the bottom too…The first thing we noticed was the tire wear… like it was out of alignment… so we had that taken care of… but, it came back again.. so the shop looked closer… and found that some of the (lets call them ribs) forward of the wheel trucks were not right.
We then noticed a soft spot in the floor and thought it might be the flooring.. at this point we called Airstream… which was little help even after we sent them pictures of the problem with the tire wear… it was like they didn’t want to know…
So when the shop got the carpet up.. they found the screws which held the flooring to the ribs had pulled completely through. This promp’td ’em to open up the underside… where they found broken rib tac welds. X had ’em fabricate n’ put 4 more full ribs in front of the axel to take the loading…and fully weld the ribs in… (seems the refrig also was coming loose) and that stop the flex’n.
She then had ’em open up the rest of the underside and we found more broken tac welds..(bad workmanship) behind the wheel truck section… which should have been full welds instead of just spots. She again had them box in the frame to add strength to it… As I said it was quite a under taking to rebuild a brand new trailer… which should have been covered by warrentee… but AS management said NO… to which we got the attny’ s back into the picture to pay for the warrenty repairs… which they flat out refused… to do. X (being a regestered (PE) design engineer) hauled their bottoms into court and proved that the design was weak , unsafe .. not structurally sound and showed that the repairs/improvements were necessary to have a safe useable product that they …should have built. It was interesting to listen to their engineer (who by the way was not a certified structural professional regestered engineer at that time) say … ” it was the way that they have always built ’em…” X won the case with the help of her girlfrind that was a attny…in a matter of hours… and AS settled out of court on the issue .. otherwise I am sure you prob would have heard about it in the RV rags…
After that we had no more problems with the AS trailer… but, I kinda feel that X was never happy with it because being new it had to be taken apart and rebuilt … (of course it started off on the right foot too.. having AS lie to her about the dinette not being in it… and made the way she had it drawn up… I think that set her off at the very begining… (being a little german.. its difficult …ouch thats going to leave a mark) … as she said several time through the life of the trailer when other things would go wrong … we shoud have never bought this piece of overpriced junk.
Then again Sean is right about the first one you buy.. you learn about what you want in the second ( in our case now the forth… the AS was our third) one you get… 😀 We sure did… and now that we have been at it for over 30 years we are just starting out with a new 25 ft TH that was built to X’s egal eye’d spec’s . Its got what we are needing.. and then some..(well what X wants.. I;m not that particular 🙂 ) nothing more or less… and so far its been a great more effecent high tech coach.
I asked X if she miss’s the old AS… and all I get are raised eyebrow and smiles. I hear her chat with her friends from back east from time to time…and they too are looking to go to something more to ones liking. X and them have long phone conversations about where things are going to be placed… bedroom location is just part of the whole picture… . for X and the other gals… the bathroom /kitchen is more important than us guys parking spots… 😀
somehow I find it ironic.. they design it the way they want.. and its our job to pull it down the road… ??? Hmmmm… guys.. don’t say anything.. just smile… it drives ’em nuts… we have our toys and they OWN the trailer… don’t even go their with ’em… or you will be sleeping in the PU camper with the dog being your best friend… quiet dog.. quit growling… 😀 (Well Sean doesn’t own a dog …YET )
Don’t get me wrong.. AS makes a find nice trailer… but, it just wasn’t what we thought it would be.. and like some of the others have said… you don’t know until you’re out their using it… if its the right one for you. I guess then that is why they have so many other manufactures in business… hmmm 🙂 I am afraid that AS relies to heavy on its past adventures (like Wally) when it comes to sales.
From what we have seen and now hear …some describe them as the cad’s of the industry… while others think its overpriced n overrated for todays adventures’. the sales numbers don’t lie… somewhere we found that out on the left coast aprox 1 out of 10,000 RV;s that are sold are AS. Wonder why?
The example of the last RV show we went to… bears out that a lot of people remember what Wally did with them…. but don’t think its worth the bux today.
As we said the two biggest sellers at that show were either the small cheap little ones for youngsters or the big ‘ns for the retire’ees that are going to full time in them and sell the house. So I think your right about AS doing a blind red tip stick tapping of the market to see what they can sell. (one other problem that seem to echo in the show was that they were built back east… not local… lots of consern about repairs n warrents… who, what, when and where…. repair issues.
GMA’s,
Good points. I know that large road bikes are at least 800 pounds each, plus who know how much other gear carried. That might have been part of the issue with his ‘hauler. I also hear you on the tire scuffing when in tight turns and quarters. It probably can’t be helped and is most likely not all that good for the tires and axles.
As to your comments about your personal Airstream. I think you are not alone with issues but they got fixed. Hardly consolation after the fact and the huge disappointment buying a new one and having to accommodate major structural repairs. But try buying a new plane, boat, house, etc. Only cars have improved to the place where they are essentially reliable from the get go. That doesn’t take the disappointment away from an exciting new expensive purchase. Airstrem is THE standard to which other RV’s are equated to. Maybe it is not fair, maybe the AS icon as the premiere TT is no longer valid. But, it still is the one manufacturer that everybody else is compared to. I would be hugely disappointed if I had the same issues you had. It just takes the fun out of ownership. Thor needs to get that message especially when anybody can buy two of somebody elses product for the same price as one AS. Thor cannot live in the past Byman stuff forever and it will catch up to them soon. For what it is worth in some of the Byman led caravans there were frame issues, and all kinds of other problems crossing Africa or whereever they were. It is not new but it has been many years and should have been fixed. Are Airstreams Hummers (the real ones the H-1)? Of course not but they should be able to negotiate a dirt road without coming apart. Embarassing to Airstream to be sure!
For what it is worth, I have had exactly zero warranty issues with our new Pacific Coachworks Tango 30 foot trailer. None! Just like with so many things, people buy Airstrems ’cause they want one. Real world reliability considerations are not as important as saying to all their RV friends that they are Airstream ‘enabled’. Image and status are still huge regardless if the product is the best or not. For many years during the 1970’s it was almost always the Mercedes car that was on the tow truck getting to the dealer from a breakdown (not an accident). But, to those that owned cars bac then, and that is most of us, they were in thar era THE best, most luxurious, best handling non sports car money could buy and if you were lucky enough to own one you were truly among the ‘exalted in crowd’. Never mind Lexus, a Toyota, made a more reliable cheaper car that also attained status among owners as well.
As I’ve said before, we sort of lucked into the 25-footer. At the time we were shopping, I had “Airstream fever” and was eager to pull the trigger. The right unit became available at the right time. Overall we’ve found it a nice compromise between comfort and maneuverability.
I can think of several places where we’ve camped in the past three years that have been a snug fit, and there’s no way we could’ve squeezed a 34-footer into certain campsites. Whiteswan Lake, one of our favorite parks in British Colombia, would not have accommodated a 34-footer (at least not in the available sites at the time).
With regard to Airstreams and current build quality, again one may draw an analogy to Porsches. If you go on any Porsche forum, you’ll quickly find guys who assert “they don’t make ’em like they used to” and they can rattle off a number of specific reasons why. And yes, in many respects it is true. But there have also been innumerable improvements on the vehicles over the years (ie. guess what –they don’t collapse in a heap of rust like they used to, either!). Porsche is still delivering much the same core experience that Porsche has always delivered. Same goes for Airstream… They have probably been somewhat homogenized over the years, but they still deliver the same core experience to a group of passionate owners.
I do get the impression that Airstream sometimes introduces and/or discontinues floor plan options without a lot of market research, or even consideration of market appeal. For example, they no longer offer our 25-foot traditional rear bedroom floor plan. And yet, a dealer once told me, “Sean, that was one of the best selling floor plans we ever had. I could sell three of ’em right now if I had them in stock. But we just can’t get them anymore!”
From a marketing standpoint, my contention is that Airstream lives off the brand that Wally built so many decades ago. But they need to rekindle that passion for adventure, and put the Airstream brand back at the fore. We often get the question, “Do they still make those things?” When potential customers don’t even realize you are still making the product, you have a problem… 😉
Earth to Jackson Center we have a problem….
Seems the WBCCI Vintage Airstream group is taking offense to the New Airstream Approch. These are the “died in the Airstream groups” and make no doubt about it they ARE airstreamers. I can remember going to one of their meetings.. (a little to snobish for dog and X as I recall) and some guy showed up with a squairstream (yep they made a squair sided trailer that had fiberglass skin) and some who had airstream argosy’e. Even though it said Airstream on the hull these good folks would not let them in the park. I mean its was for airstream (silver bullet) trailers and folks only.
Well it seems that AS is now going after the younger set because they feel the oldies WBCCI’s are too stuff’ed shirt. (more like die’n off) So it looks to me that the manufacture is re-orgin’n and breaking away from the traditional .. you goto be a member to be in the group …group. So we shoud see the red numbers disapear from them.. as we have decention within the groups. BIG OPS…
As to the problems for airstream it seem they just don’t stop at the old vs the new. Looks like AS has a problem on their hands with the ALU skin going south … what was that bout collaps’n in a rust pile SEAN 🙂
One gent wrote… in our newsletter …
Who out there has a newer Airstream (say from 2001 through the current model year) that has the dreaded white spider veins AKA: form fill corrosion?
I know that I do recall others saying they their shells had issues. I’m wondering now how widespread this issue may be. Tthis issue started back in spring of 2005. The factory replaced all 4 of his rims and both cast alum tail lights. Not only did he report that the corrosion came back on all 4 rims and both cast alum tail lights, but it now appears to be all over the body on both the exterior alum skins and the outside door trims.
He too had a conversation with support in Jackson Center suggested that he lightly sand down the spots and apply clear fingernail polish to it. Do you know how bad his Safari would look after that given all the locations where this is??!!?? He too asked what they felt was causing this because others also have seen this and suprise He got no response. He goes on to say that ,” If there are a number of us out there, perhaps it’s time we grouped together. I can’t believe a $50k RV (and in some cases, a heck of a lot more) is doing this at only 1.5 years old and is 10x worse now a 3.5 years old. Anyone know how to start a class action if there are enough of us??
this guy is talking bad JU JU to make AS pony up… thats not good for the im-age of the AS.
We had ours taken over to the local aircraft paint shop and had a process called alodining done to it. Ours started corroding around the rivet heads on the outside. A aircaft inspector we know suggested that it be stripped, prep’ed and then conversion coated.. i.e sprayed with alodine. We did… and the corrosion didn’t come back for a while.
It seems that AS used to have a process, similar to what we had done, when they deliver the metal. Now most bright AS owners then take the trailer to some buffing shop and have it buffed mirror finish. This takes the corrosion conversion protective coating off… guess what happens next… uncontrolled corrosion gone bad. But, they never learn. They think its sharp to have it mirror finished on the outside. 😀
The bad news is that it appears the kingdom of the AS is imploding on itself… and one wonders if it will go the way of the avion and streamline.
Then again SEAN like the old VW which was made for years with only minor body changes… the peoples car ran and ran and you could not import enough of them to fill the american hunger for ’em…(old VW’s didn’t die.. they got recycled into dune buggies) Then suddenly they were gone… replaced with a wrabbit… Sales dropped out the bottom and the company almost imploded.
Why did they quit making your trailer? Did the people quit buying ’em… NO.. It was a managemt decision that was made without reguard to the peoples liking.
As we all know this should have been based on one of two …problems. The first is sales.. you have to make money to stay in business… was this the case… NO as your dealer had a need and want for more of the units. The second reasion for change is the materials. Was this the case .. again NO. The management tried something different to increase sales.. I think it failed. (front bed/rear bed issue) What AS has lacked all along is a positive feedback. I.E getting out and finding out what is popular and what is needed. keeping up with technology is one thing… giving people what they want is another. So the only other answer is manufacture secrets. They quit building your trailer because of some other problem which forced them into stopping production. thus you get conserned if your missing something that may be determental to your happyness in the unit.
As we have said all along… airstream is not marketing itself well. They still are self centered when it comes to promoting the products they make.
By having exposure and feedback, such as you provide in your adventuers, they really are missing the chance to promote .. promote and promote their products and coincidentally then also their sales… when you are doing almost exactly what WALLY did back when he started making them. You are showing how much fun it is to have one. Go figure… 😉 😉
So what would it cost to retain you and promote AS? $100,000 a year… heck they could make that back in 10 trailers they sold when you appear at the AS RV shows… that is provided they show up to those… not a bad return for a minor investment in my book. 😀
I once happened across the annual sales figures for Airstream and was a little shocked at how few are produced. Ferrari sells more cars on an annual basis than Airstream does travel trailers. What’s wrong with this picture?
Airstream is a well managed, profitable company. But over the past several decades, the marketing has coasted on momentum Wally created. The company itself has done little to carry forward Wally’s vision from a marketing standpoint. Case in point: the 50th anniversary of Wally’s 1958 African caravan came and went last year. This was a wonderful media opportunity to rekindle the historical appeal of Airstream brand — to show that yes, they are still making ’em AND USING ‘EM like they did in the good ole days.
But Airstream had nothing to do with the proposed reunion caravan in Africa, so it was scrapped. A small domestic “tribute rally” was put together by individuals without any substantive support from the company. The upshot is that a golden marketing opportunity — one that likely could’ve sold dozens, maybe hundreds of Airstreams — was missed.
The official Airstream club (the WBCCI, or Wally Byam Caravan Club) has seen its numbers dwindle over the past several decades. True story: we actually joined the club immediately after purchasing our Airstream. We planned to put the red numbers on our Airstream, so they would have been proudly displayed in ALL of our blog videos. So what happened? We paid our money online, and waited to receive our membership materials. We waited… and waited … and waited… After 6 weeks passed, we still had not received the materials. We stopped waiting. We departed on our Long Long Honeymoon without the red numbers. When we returned home several months later, we found the membership kit had finally arrived. But it was too late. Another missed opportunity for Airstream and the WBCCI.
I believe that, given the proper resources, a well financed video show would boost sales dramatically — not only for Airstream but even the RV industry as a whole.
I’m optimistic that in the years to come, we’ll see some progress along these lines. The economy is slowly turning around, and the RVIA is investing more on TV — so we’ll see! In the meantime, our “one man band” will keep banging the drum… 🙂